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August 02, 2006

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Kimball Corson

LAK,
Be careful of those bright, athletic amazons. I was married to one for many years and even though we are now divorced, she remains a real handful, but I love her dearly and she produced georgeous children.

The Law Fairy

"I just thought it was telling of your embrace of your gendered girlishness and inability to do anything but blame men for those destructive norms you have internalized."

Again, you're reading too much into what I've said. Plus, you clearly haven't read my other comments here and other places. I don't blame men for destructive norms. They haven't exactly been women's champions, true, but sexism doesn't exist because Joe Sixpack wants a hot dumb wife. Sexism is a lot more complicated than that, and I have consistently stated that, and it's unfortunate that you take a such a narrow view of my opinion. But, so that the record is straight, you are quite wrong about me, on lots of levels.

LAK

LF,

After all we've virtually been through, I must admit, I like your moxie and think you rock, despite the whole Jesus thing. Nobody's perfect. I'm sure you are a wonderful person, clearly a couple, maybe even three standard deviations from the mean in intelligence, and I know I have no idea about what kind of persopn you are. I just thought the family guy example was, uh, not your best.

Kimball Corson

Law Fairy approaches the subjects of religion, sexism and feminism both offensively and defensively at once, but always aggressively. It makes for odd, unnatural stances, as though such matters were not settled in her own heart and there is consequential internal discomfort. Nietzcshe liked the ancient Greeks way of relaxing and intuitively coming to good emotional solutions that made them comfortable. Socrates deconstructed those positions, but offered too little that was better, inasmuch as everything is deconstructable. Intellect is of limited use on core emotional sensibilities, as Nietzsche explained it, critiquing Socrates. I think that is the case. Our intuition has much of value buried in it, and it should and often does guide us in important matters.

LAK

Kimball,

"The same thing that makes you live, can kill you in the end." Despite the burns, that flame still draws me near. Can't help it.

Kimball Corson

LAK,
I understand. I understand too well.

The Law Fairy

LAK,

Thanks for the compliments... I think given more time I could explain better the points I was trying to make, which I don't think are bad -- but best to let it rest at this point I think.

Kimball,

Why the need for psychoanalysis? Just because I'm young and female doesn't mean I need you to tell me I'm confused. Thanks, but I can pay for my own therapy if and when I decide I want it.

Kimball Corson

LAK notes that for all his exchanges with LF, he still has no idea about what kind of person she is. Check out her website, LAK. The image or better said manner she projects there is close to a bright teenibopper on steroids, far removed from what you see here. But she posts no picture of herself or even her named car. She hides behind manner and intellect for now and for the reasons I described above. This is a sorting out era for her and she will make no public appearance.

Kimball Corson

Law Fairy,
You did not even let me finish. Besides, we do have a legitimate interest in the sources of our entertainment.

The Law Fairy

Kimball, I hope you feel like a big important smart man with your backhanded insults. I used to respect you. But I guess we all learn something about people we used to think respectable.

You are one of the most small-minded people I've ever (virtually) met who actually does a decent job of passing himself off as an enlightened individual. Wow. Thanks for showing the ugliness inside you.

Kimball Corson

LF,
You over react and become effusive with insults. You cannot stand a perspective that does not include yours but addresses yours.

The Law Fairy

Kimball, you compared me to a teenager. That's incredibly insulting. I doubt even an apology would suffice at this point.

But, clearly, I am "overreacting" because, maybe to someone your age, youth is a compliment. But if you can remember being disrespected solely on the basis of your youth, maybe if you try really hard you'll *get* just how insulting you are.

Kimball Corson

Law Fairy,
I didn't compare you to or call you a teenager. Not exactly anyway. (Now that I have my foot in my mouth, let me walk around in there a bit). I said the manner you projected there is close to a bright teenibopper on steroids, very different from what we see here. And that is true. Do you deny it? Anyway, please don't be insulted. In twenty years, you might even be flattered. Actually, you are kind of cute on your website and for that reason. You can be and are serveral different people and there is nothing wrong with that. It only makes you more interesting.

As for me, my beautiful young Mexican lawyer was once asked what I was to her by a friend in my presence and she first said I was her friend, but then she checked herself and thought, I am sure knowing how I hated categorical thinking, and then, after a moment said, at times he's my father, at times a brother, at times a friend, at times a boyfriend, at times my child but he is also my client. I thought that was a splendid and accurate answer and understood how she managed to graduate from law school at 20. (I tried to ship her off to Harvard for an LLM which I would pay for but her Mom would not hear of it. The education of women was only to certify their intelligence, nothing more. Besides marrying her off well locally was Mom´s social security program and more education would only interfer, as she was already a handful.)

Kimball Corson

Law Fairy,
I didn't compare you to or call you a teenager. Not exactly anyway. (Now that I have my foot in my mouth, let me walk around in there a bit). I said the manner you projected there is close to a bright teenibopper on steroids, very different from what we see here. And that is true. Do you deny it? Anyway, please don't be insulted. In twenty years, you might even be flattered. Actually, you are kind of cute on your website and for that reason. You can be and are serveral different people and there is nothing wrong with that. It only makes you more interesting.

As for me, my beautiful young Mexican lawyer was once asked what I was to her by a friend in my presence and she first said I was her friend, but then she checked herself and thought, I am sure knowing how I hated categorical thinking, and then, after a moment said, at times he's my father, at times a brother, at times a friend, at times a boyfriend, at times my child but he is also my client. I thought that was a splendid and accurate answer and understood how she managed to graduate from law school at 20. (I tried to ship her off to Harvard for an LLM which I would pay for but her Mom would not hear of it. The education of women was only to certify their intelligence, nothing more. Besides marrying her off well locally was Mom´s social security program and more education would only interfer, as she was already a handful.)

Kimball Corson

Sorry for the accidental double post.

The Law Fairy

Kimball, I'll give you some leeway to backtrack here because Lord (or, you know, whoever) knows we all sometimes lash out when discussions get heated.

BUT your comment *about* me to LAK was pretty clearly meant in a derogatory manner. You presume to think I'm "sorting myself out" just because I act a different way on my blog than I do here. What if the fact is that I'm completely comfortable with all the various aspects of my persona? On my blog, I try to project someone fun and youthful and more than occasionally sarcastic. I don't know too many teenyboppers who act that way I do on my blog, but perhaps I'm just not hanging with a young enough crowd these days. Just as being feminist and being feminine need not be mutually exclusive, being peppy and being intelligent need not be either. Though you now admit as much, that was not, in all fairness, the tone of your earlier comment.

Having graduated young from high school, college, and law school, I'll admit to being particularly sensitized to comments that appear aimed at my youth. In addition, I suspect that if my pseudonymous persona were male, but I wrote in precisely the same manner, I wouldn't be accused of being a teenybopper. Those close to me know that sexism and ageism are two of my pet peeves. Maybe I get worked up because I'm young; maybe not. Neither is a reason to offhandedly presume I'm overreacting. Just because one person has a different reaction from another, does not itself mean that reaction is "bad." Better I spend my energy yelling on a blog than getting in a bar brawl, no?

As for making a "public appearance," I'd think the reason I don't give out my real name was obvious: people I don't want googling me have googled me in the past, to mild embarrassment -- given some of the strong opinions I occasionally post on my blog, the ramifications could be further-reaching nowadays. People who know me IRL are able to figure out pretty easliy who I am from my blog, however -- and none of them have ever accused me of seeming like a teenybopper, either there or in real life.

And there is a picture of me in my archives, if you know where to look for it. None of Rudolfo, however.

Kimball Corson

Law Fairy,

Age is a tricky thing. Call a 21 year old girl a 19 year old and you are in as much trouble as calling an 75 man or woman, 80. Worse, call a 6 year old a 4 year old, and you're in deep dodo too. An 82 year old male calls an 80 friend a mere wipper-snapper. In the middle ages, for men it doesn't matter much, but at the ends and with women anytime, age speculation, conjecture or inuendo is perilous business. My Bad. Is there such a thing as a twenty-something bopper? I need linguistic help here.

My comment to LAk about you was not really derogatory and was certainly not intended to be so. It was more macro observational, with a more neutral and flattery intent. At least that is what I meant or intended. You are so sensitive. A working approach to you, both emotionally and intellectually, has to be one of the world's most complex slomon courses. I am sure you will ratchet down in time. We all do. At my age, the trick is to then ratchet up.

The Law Fairy

"A working approach to you, both emotionally and intellectually, has to be one of the world's most complex slomon courses."

I'm not that complicated. Sorry if I confuse you -- but feel free to ignore me if paying attention is too much work. Look, I'll believe you if you say you're not trying to insult me, but seriously, I mean, look at what you just wrote. I'm "sensitive." Um, you have never met me and you are making presumptions about what sort of person I am in my personal life. I haven't engaged, as others have, in such jabs at you (along the lines of, "you just live on a boat and do what you want," "you are a hermit," etc.). I don't do it because I think it's 1) irrelevant and 2) insulting on an extremely personal and base level. Here is what I am saying: you don't know me, and it irritates me to know end when people cast aspersions on my character just because I post a few things on a blog. And yes, comparing me to flighty young girls (that's the connotation I think most would agree is conveyed by "teenybopper") is an aspersion in my book. I mean, think about it: it's a charicature of both my age and my gender. Now, you already know that I hate gender stereotypes. I don't need people telling me I'm "pretty," or that I'm "cute," or any of the things people think women want to hear. So, if you meant it as a compliment, thanks, but in the future it's really just unnecessary. And as to age, I suppose that's a matter of preference. I obviously don't mind people knowing how old I am or noting that I'm young -- but you have to admit there's a large and important difference between "teenager" and "young adult professional." I mean, unless you know any teenage lawyers I think that's pretty demeaning.

As to women versus men, probably true in most respects, but I generally don't care how old people guess I am based on my appearance, which is what most women, stereotypically at least, care about. If someone thinks I appear overly young from the way I speak, however, this does bother me, which I don't think is oversensitivity but rather a sense of what's valued in my profession, which I take seriously.

Again, I'm not complicated. I don't make sense if you apply conventional standards to me -- but then I am not the one who gave permission to do so. I would think it's obvious from my comments here I'm anything but conventional. (and note -- unconventional does not mean complicated, it just means different)

Kimball Corson

I pass on this one. I need a breather and a break. A bike ride sounds nice.

curtisstrong

Wow...we've suddenly gotten deep into personal things again. Hmm...

As for the whole age thing, I really think that what's been said previously can be applied to the situation here as well. Some things just aren't that big of a deal. I've come to realize that many of the things that make people feel "sensitive" are quite often preconceived ideas...i.e. we first decide that something is going to be a sensitive topic, and then act according to that notion later on. I really think a simple, "my age has nothing to do with anything," should suffice, and on we move.

I say this mostly because I've seen people (in many different places of the world) lose friends and just make life difficult for themselves based on these strange "sensitivities," thinking that somehow they are defending some cause.

Whatever Kimball's comment about "teeniboppers" may have meant, it's not that big of a deal. If he wants to talk seriously about the issues here, he's going to have to address your arguments, otherwise, your logic still holds. There is absolutely NO USE in getting upset when someone talks about your age; it will only upset you.

I've never seen your website. I'm not sure what's on there, but you yourself said that you are "peppy," which to me brings up thoughts of a "pep squad," which may include "teeniboppers." If that's the tone of the website, Kimball may not be so far off.

HOWEVER...NONE of that is very important, as you point out. Your personal characteristics have no correlation whatsoever with your logic, that's why ad hom and poisoning the well are labeled as logical fallacies, okay? From a personal standpoint, I really think if you let yourself get all worked up about this kind of stuff, it's not going to get you anywhere.

All of this is just my own personal advice. Take it for what it's worth. I'm 25, and I still act like a child...being a teenibopper isn't all that bad. I miss those days sometimes.

Now, back to the issue at hand...

curtisstrong

"there is no use getting upset about your age, it will only upset you"

is perhaps the most self-evident piece of writing that has ever come out of my brain.

Add onto that, it will only upset you, "but will do little to nothing to convince others, the majority of the time."

curtisstrong

Now,

We were having a fairly coherent discussion a while back, before all of this teenibopper nonsense.

You wrote, essentially, that women need role-models who can give them an example of how to be successful professionals. Also, that women are socially pressured into marriage, as are men, but that the stereotypes place the man as the major bread-winner (requiring them to have a career and money before marriage), and the woman as the childbearer who also poses as a maid/cook/nurse (which doesn't carry the necessity of extensive education or professionalism)...etc. Correct me if I'm wrong in any of that characterization.

With that, I agree, generally. However, I think that my own life experiences differ from that, and actually contradict it somewhat. I am 25, and got married when I was 23. I hadn't really a penny to my name (my wife paid for our dates the first few months...), and we were living renting an apartment, scraping by month to month, and trying to go to school. My wife, by contrast, grew up in Spain, where marriage and child-birth are at historical lows (they are actually IMPORTING Argentineans to live and work in some rural towns...). Also, she grew up in a home with no father. Her mother always encouraged her to have a profession before she got married. Yet, we found each other, quickly fell in love, and got married 6 months later. Now, we've been married (happily so far) for 2 years, and have a baby on the way (and I'll be starting law school in 2007).

I realize that this is only one example, but you can see how I have some difficulty accepting that society is completely responsible for women choosing mother-track life over professional life. I spoke with my wife about this last night, and she simply told me that she has realized that this is categorically more important to her than money or status. She feels like she can have a greater impact on our family by raising our children than by being a role-model as a professional woman. (She still wants to have a side-job translating/interpreting from Spanish to English, eventually...but that's not nearly as important to her as having a child).

That said, I really think that personal relationships, particularly sexual relationships, have a lot more power than our intelligence ever will. I also think the parental instict is a strong one, although not necessarily for everyone (or at the same points in life, as you stated earlier).

So...to sum up. I DO think that there are many, many times where women get the short end of the stick. That needs to be remedied. But I just think that women should do what they feel is right, and that they should have every opportunity to pursue it, the same as men. But I don't think that women who choose home life over professional life should be looked down upon in any way. I also think that women ARE making a lot of progress, and that they, generally, can do pretty much whatever they want. I'm sure you'll take advantage of that, as will many others.


(P.S. Women pee squatting in China by preference.)

Chenyun Zhu

Yep. We do strike paper currency off with the portrait of Chairman Mao and no one could absolutely deny his deity merit during World War II. For this slaughter, the majority around me in Shanghai, made comment as follows:
"I see. But several people there got infected with rabies and died innocently. Dogs are not immune from infectious rabies and not precious and costly. Right? "(I do believe posts here on the Arena of Duel can interpret the comment well. :) )
However, none of them in addition with speakers on this blog has made sense that the massacre reflects the intrinsic conflict of interest between the governmental policy and people. As my perception on economic viscounty of "dog" in Yunnan, a farming-oriented province in China, "dog" belongs to inhabitants' property, whose stochastic negative impact on the outer world is to hurt people and cause death with the precondition of dear cost of bacterin and asymmetric family income. "dog" guards village and farming land, which functions as a sensitive organ to potential harvest. China government declared it a decade ago that we set the first priority on farmer's earnings and all the governments globally over-announced it hundreds ago that we set the first priority on people's life value. I think that is the knit and makes me associate it with Pareto, homing with the clue. For this instace, we settle the first order on life, doomed to protection on the basic life rights and give away second order to police dogs which are presumed to be well regulated. Consequently, the government carried out the slaughter to publish its respect on people's life, which is supposed to be accepted politically. And all the people suffers economic loss initiatively starting from dog, a tool of protection on personal farming. I do not think those dog-owners will accept the slaughter without complaints. However, an simple intuitionistic fairness, typically that most of the dog-owners lost their dogs with little leaving-out and will abide economic expense, makes the public calm.
I do very disagree on the doctrine that it's politically substantial to distribute a disturbance on people and make them wordless, though I am a Chinese. But let me ask in the case of low-income, weak ability to afford the bacterin and little compensation in front of people's death and necessary protection on life, what will you do?
Yes it is a tragedy but we should rethink.

Kimball Corson

Chenyun Zhu,

So kill the x rabid dogs and let the other (50,000 - x) live.

Chenyun Zhu

Kimball Corson,
So kill the rabid dogs after one person died of it.

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